Nightwish - 01 Dark Chest of Wonders （End of An Era） Live

IDislikeCowards Says:

Nov 24, 2009 - When composing a letter intended to explain to the world why a very popular band member needed to be dismissed from a band (well, such a thing was NEVER done before in the history of music, but ok, let's just say it HAD to be done), one uses the most precise and honest language possible in order to avoid anyone finding a mistake lest one be seen as non-credible. One especially would not attempt to invent things or use outright deception, as that would totally destroy any credibility.

IDislikeCowards Says:

Nov 24, 2009 - Once outright deliberate deception is found, then NOTHING from that author can be believed, since though you might have found one thing that COULD be easily proven false or misleading, what about those things where you can't be sure? Should you believe a proven liar, just in case he might be honest in things you can't find out, or do you assume that he's ALSO being dishonest in things you have no way of knowing?

IDislikeCowards Says:

Nov 24, 2009 - There are various levels of honesty and integrity. Dishonest people have a harder time believing that there are truly honest people out there, since themselves are dishonest. There ARE people who are honest where it matters, and there ARE people who are pretty much ALWAYS honest, though those people are few and far between. Then there are a LOT of dishonst people out there. So that being so, not much in Tuomas' letter should be believed. In fact, I'd say it's pretty much pure BS.

SotakoiraMustis Says:

Nov 24, 2009 - All right, I understand your points, but being pretty dishonest man myself I know that people often tend to speak things half-truths. And I don't think that the letter was pure BS because in Nightwish there were more members than just Tuomas and Tarja. And there were much more people who worked with Nightwish or knew them, so I'm pretty sure that not everyone would just sit quietly and watch when Tuomas published that letter if it was pure BS, since like you said there ARE people who are honest.

IDislikeCowards Says:

Nov 24, 2009 - The other band members went along with Tuomas since he IS the boss, and they are all pretty good drinking buddies. They decided that her husband was a horrible person (whether he was or not is debatable, but he more than likely wasn't). AND, it is also rather clear that Tuomas had a deep love for Tarja, and he was severely hurt when she married her husband instead of falling for him. His rage grew progressively worse, to where he "just couldn't write songs for her anymore".

IDislikeCowards Says:

Nov 24, 2009 - Her husband descibes a talk he had with Tuomas in Oct 2004 to tell him to back off, she's a married woman. Read the lyrics to Bye Bye Beautiful, "Did you ever hear what I told you? Did you ever read what I wrote you? Did you ever listen to what we played?" Then look over the lyrics to Everdream. Watch Tuomas begin to weep at the beginning of that song on the End of an Era clip. Then read the lyrics to Poet and the Pendulum.

IDislikeCowards Says:

Nov 24, 2009 - "Today, in the year of our Lord 2005, Tuomas was called from the cares of the world He stopped crying at the end of each beautiful day The music he wrote had too long been without silence He was found naked and dead With a smile in his face, a pen and 1000 pages of erased text"

IDislikeCowards Says:

Nov 24, 2009 - One example I can bring up from the letter is the reference to the Oslo concert, where Tuomas very ingeniously leads a reader to believe the concert was cancelled due to Tarja. The concert was performed as scheduled (even though it was added without informing Tarja first) on Sept. 5, 2005 at the Rockefellar in Oslo. You can find it on the NW websit, Live-Past Shows-2004 So even though EVERY ONE of them know that show wasn't cancelled, they allow people to believe it was.

SotakoiraMustis Says:

Nov 24, 2009 - That is all too much soap-opera so I don't think it is really like that, though it is also possible. But about that show in Oslo, the letter said that Tarja wanted to cancel it, but that doesn't mean that it was cancelled in the end, and looking at their website it seems it wasn't. Well eitherway it's not really my business (or anyone elses here) so I think that I should stfu (since I noticed I'm going to lose this argument XD) and just let this thing be.

80XxbelialxX08 Says:

Nov 24, 2009 - Anyway, I'm NOT posting here about thing I don't know anything about. I call TuomAss a coward because he fired Tarja through a letter instead of telling those thing to her face. That is a FACT not an rumour. I call him a liar because he said he wouldn't kick Tarja out, but he did it. That is a FACT not an opinion. I call him an idiot because I WANT TO... that is also a fact... XD

PhantomMaster Says:

Nov 24, 2009 - People still argue over the letter? Haha. Great song.

Twiekieman Says:

Nov 25, 2009 - Don't you think you choose the easy way out SotakoiraMustis? First going in debate with IDislikeCowards and when you noticed that he's giving you some doubts you said "Well eitherway it's not really my business ( or anyone elses here) so i think that i should stfu (since i noticed i'm going to lose this argument XD)....." Tuomas must really love and like himself, why else he give glory to himself in some songlyrics...o_0 And his credibility ended in october 2005 at Helsinki!!!!!!!

SotakoiraMustis Says:

Nov 25, 2009 - Well, first of all, from the beginning I didn't want my comment to make a big argument with IDISLIKECOWARDS or anybody else. And I told 80XxbelialxX08 already in the beginning ''don't talk about other peoples issues like you know what happened'' and I meant that everyone should just mind their own business and not come talking shit about people who they don't even know personally. PS: Then would you have preferred that Tuomas had written some kind of emoshit lyrics complaining how shit he is?

Twiekieman Says:

Nov 25, 2009 - If everyone should mind his/her own business YouTube would be a very quiet place to visit... About your emoshit lyrics, sure i wouldn't like to see he writes such lyrics but on the other hand it's better then that he will 'glorify' himself....again!! Arrogance is not strange for Tuomas, his attitude towards others is 'bad', this is one of the reasons why Anette got herself a personal manager, just like Tarja once did. This way it's impossible for him to have total control over others!!!

Twiekieman Says:

Nov 25, 2009 - On Lowlands 2005 i have met Tuomas, a few questions later i was convinced of his arrogance! His attitude towards Tarja, for the whole 2005, wasn't also a proof of social communication/behaviour. Undoubtly we never will know the real reason(s) why Tarja got fired but Tuomas should had done it in a proper and social way without harming Tarja and her fans. It seems to me that Tuomas has only one goal in life: to be some God.. For me he is a God, the God of Bullshit...

Twiekieman Says:

Nov 25, 2009 - Did you know that there are/were strubbles between Tuomas and Anette!! And Emppu is still not happy the way Nightwish got rid of Tarja, if i am correct he is the only one who still has contact with Tarja. Plus there are rumours that Marco played a major part in Tarja's removal. They are rumours but in general rumours do have a part of truth!!!!!

Glady210 Says:

Nov 25, 2009 - and what exactly convinced you that he's arrogant?

Twiekieman Says:

Nov 25, 2009 - Glady210, the way he talked to me. I was there with other fans who wanted to meet him and the other bandmembers. Tuomas didn't really answered our questions, he had absolutely no interest. He wouldn't want us taking pictures of him with us and only stared in the distance. We had about 5 minutes with him and the result was that for most of us he became arrogant and since then he still is! From other fans, at other concerts, i heard later the same stories, this only proved my conclusion!

patapuffete Says:

Nov 25, 2009 - the removal of tarja, the main reason, did not get along with her husband, where he pushed for a career away from the group because he would earn much more. and pretended not to keep Tarja's husband as personal manager. In fact he is from when you are married to take care of the contracts. If this reasoning is true, in my view, have done well in the live performances even if the new singer will not reach the previous mail.

GabyGothik84 Says:

Nov 25, 2009 - Let me say two words: Tuomas Holopainen

GabyGothik84 Says:

Nov 25, 2009 - I don´t think He is arrongant, on the contrary, he is too shy to show himself in public, Have you ever seen him in an interview or something?? He doesn´t want to call the attention, He is good enough to show his image, He is good enough to show what he does, and what He does is really good....enough of that....

Glady210 Says:

Nov 26, 2009 - Maybe he was having a bad day, I met him this summer and he was very nice to everyone, answering silly questions, signing autographs, taking pictures etc. so maybe he was just in a bad mood.

soundslikeblue Says:

Nov 26, 2009 - I prefer this version of Dark Chest of Wonders to the studio version! I see that people are still comment on Tarja's dissmissal. Any inteligent person understands that storys like this are never simple and there are always 2 sides... will understand that Not only a person can be blamed for everything, and that The open letter is so much unfair to Tarja because it was the most coward solution again! (Tarja wasn't the first one to be dissmissed). Inspite of that I still Like Nightwish very much!

Twiekieman Says:

Nov 26, 2009 - Glady210, as i mentioned i met him years ago, in the period that there were troubles within the band. Sure, the influence of these problems on his behaviour were known but that didn't gave him the right to treat some fans the way he did in august 2005! And of course i know also that his behaviour then was just a moment in time but, as i mentioned earlier, other fans told me later the same stories about his behaviour... Doesn't take away the fact that he is a exceptional good songwriter :)

Twiekieman Says:

Nov 26, 2009 - Soundslikeblue, you are right. Tarja wasn't the first victim, Sami was years before her also fired!!!! On the dvd 'From Wishes to Eternity" you can hear Tuomas saying (in Finnish) "Sami really has to go ...." and we all know that Sami received soon a letter from the management.... But just like you i am still a very huge fan of Nightwish.....despite Anette's voice...:)