Star Trek vs. Star Wars

blacksun2175 Says:

Nov 22, 2009 - Nope, the federation is a class 2 civilization, while the empire is a class 3 civilization. They can put out millions of times the troops ships and firepower than the federation, klingon and romulan star empires ever could, combined. The federation vs the galactic empire would not be evenly matched, it would be a onesided curbstomp in the empires favor.

blacksun2175 Says:

Nov 22, 2009 - Big glaring holes in that logic are: 1.SW never claimed to be realistic, while trek did and failed miserably. 2. Trek invents bullshit physics and particles in every episode, they butcher science by itroducing flawed concepts like: continued

blacksun2175 Says:

Nov 22, 2009 - 3. Hyper evolution and evolutionary predestinations, they have said humans will evolve into amphibians. 4. They state that you can escape event horizons by finding holes in them, they say you can reach infinite speed with finite fuel. Which is stupid for several reasons. I could literally go all week about what science they have messsed up completely. As for which is better, that is only a matter of opinion and irrelevant to most people, except you it seems. Also quantity=/=quality

blacksun2175 Says:

Nov 22, 2009 - Like I said: Escaping event horizons with finite fuel, that's as bad as you can screw astrophysics... Also they have come to a "full stop" in space, which newton's laws prevent... Like I said I can go on about their innaccuracies for a while, but hey, don't take it PERSONALLY.

blacksun2175 Says:

Nov 22, 2009 - Let's see Cochranes laws...in otherwords a load of bullshit from a fictional character in a franchise that repeatedly stomps on science... Right, like that has much credibility... End of the line? You're one to talk, you abandoned the whole trek=realistic the moment I posted a response, now you're trying to backpedal, while trying to add an ad hominem...

blacksun2175 Says:

Nov 22, 2009 - Again you have to result to ad hominems... There were several episodes in TOS,TNG and VOY. Again somthing they got wrong and never bothered to correct, then kept using in the later series. Is that's all you have? No substance...pity.

blacksun2175 Says:

Nov 22, 2009 - sci-fi can be realistic too, trek isn't. "I don't ever take a DIRECT attack" "you have a lot of growing up to do" "you're at the end of the line" I was a Trek fan since I watched my first TOS episode.

DonHoraldo Says:

Nov 22, 2009 - first off the there are 2 reference in all star wars books to turbo lasers being anywhere as powerful as that. one that says that ships in orbit cooked 2 city's and one that says that using turbolaser a ship melted the crust of a planet. the first one is a strange tale about how in order to produce a steem cloud it must have been accomplished with 1 shot and that is the calculation used. the other assumes a planet like earth and that the world was melted in less than 1 hour.

DonHoraldo Says:

Nov 22, 2009 - it's also funny how you harp on photon torpedo. for one the 1.5kg of antimatter is often increased in the classic star treks. for another they aren't even close to cutting edge in the prerestart universe. just listening to the star trek cannon quantum torpedoes are far more powerful with transphasic almost twice them.

piratewill89 Says:

Nov 22, 2009 - so cool

Perion Says:

Nov 22, 2009 - so basically instead of it taking 8,000 torpedoes to equal one light Turbolaser shot it would be 4,000 oo I'm scared... cutting edge or not Photons are still the bog standard even on the enterprise E wich has mostly photons rather than quantums, and how come we never saw those transphasics in nemesis? oh that's right, temporal prime directive/only being on supervoyager. face it, nothing you say will change the simple fact that The Empire steamrolls over the Federation and it's allies/enemies.

Perion Says:

Nov 22, 2009 - doesn't make those instances, or the CCS any less canon, and there's no reason to assume it wasn't an earth like planet and in order to have been done quickly enough considering the travel times etc in star wars it would have to have been in under an hour to avoid surviving witnesses.

DonHoraldo Says:

Nov 22, 2009 - bull. earth is an atypical planet. Venus for example with just a few nukes well placed could have it's crust liquefied. and now your not only using propaganda from a non canonical source but speculation on even that. just doesn't hold up.

DonHoraldo Says:

Nov 22, 2009 - the highly assumption ridden estimate I read said turbolasers around 2 gigatons equivalent not the 200 I've heard elsewhere. btw that was 2 steps up not one. the metric they use in the show is for the standard torpedo yield to 18.5 isotons, Transphasic Torpedoes are classed at 525 isotons. so if 18.5 isotons is ~60 megatons of tnt then 1 Transphasic Torpedoes is 1.7 gigatons of tnt.

Perion Says:

Nov 22, 2009 - except the world in question was a habitable one, so it was at least M class, besides, you have no authority to question the figures, the 2 gigaton thing was just a lower limit, the 200 gigaton thing is the upper for the ICS books. Isotons are meaningless and cannot be used to create megaton equivalents, they are completely Inconsistent with one another especially when stated on screen, besides there is no official Transphasic torpedo Isoton yield, only baseless fan speculation.

Perion Says:

Nov 22, 2009 - I find it funny how you criticize us for speculation based on OFFICIAL CANON material, then you go ahead ans use outright FANON to support your side. pathetic Hypocrisy. Isoton yields are completely discarded as evidence due to a lack of internal consistency, there is no clear X = Y Isoton to real world measurement conversion possible. instead Voyager and Nemesis era weapons are compared based on their performance vs TNG era equivilents on screen (how long a Galaxy class lasts vs an Intrepid)

DonHoraldo Says:

Nov 22, 2009 - are you really going to go there. are you really going to say "only fan speculation" I got news for you the current estimation of the death star is based off fans assuming the size of alderaan as the same as earth, and counting frames when it blows up. sorry but star wars weapons yields are nothing but fan speculation. at least star trek has some gold standard to go against.

Perion Says:

Nov 22, 2009 - there is also no reason to assume that Transphasics have much higher yield than regular photon torpedoes, since 3 unaddapted to phaser blasts can destroy 20% of a borg cube, a single unadaptable weapon with identical yield to a Photon Torpedo could easily destroy a Cube as seen in Endgame. I'd love to see where you got your laughably high Isoton yield for Transphasics compared to Photon torpedoes, because every even fanon source places them at roughly worth 4 Photon torpedoes maximum in yield.

Perion Says:

Nov 22, 2009 - really, what "Gold Standard" would that be? hmm? laughable non-existant and inconsistant "Isoton" measurements? or just the whole thing about using matter/antimatter conversion? this so called "speculation" was calculated by a guy with a PHD in Theoretical Astrophysics, and then made canon by Lucasfilm so it was no longer "Speculation" what credentials do you have? that Transphasic yield you pulled isn't canon or even official speculation (TNG:TM/DS9:TM).

Perion Says:

Nov 22, 2009 - I mean, I must have missed something where assuming, without a shred of evidence, that there is a Firepower discrepancy between photon torpedoes and Transphasic torpedoes of 2000% was more acceptable than oh i don't know, being under the impression that a planet capable of supporting humanoid life would be similar in size and environment to earth? Isn't Star Trek all about the "M class" planets that virtually all look like earth with different shaped continents?

Perion Says:

Nov 22, 2009 - besides, it doesn't change the fact that the 200 gigaton light turbolaser yield is canon, while your little 1.7 gigaton yield Transphasics is tantamount to fanwank. it also doesn't change the fact that the federation doesn't have the Industrial capacity to make enough such torpedoes or equip all their ships with them, even during Nemesis Quantum Torpedoes are rare and Photons are standard, hell even in STO which is supposed to take place in 2409! official speculation fan speculation.

Perion Says:

Nov 22, 2009 - the only time when that isn't the case is when the official speculation stats clearly conflict with on screen performance, such as the laughable idea that setting 16 phasers can blow away 7x7x7 meters of rock in .3 seconds , while in "Chain of Command Part 1" we saw worf take 3 seconds straight at 16 to disintegrate a few dozen cubic inches of rock. Phasers clearly do not "Vapourize" targets, the only logical explanation is that they convert the target into neutrinoes via NDF chain reaction.

TheRealTaco87 Says:

Nov 22, 2009 - Nerds!!! :-P Butt Ugly Martians own all!

blacksun2175 Says:

Nov 22, 2009 - What perion said... It seems he has degenerated to full blown trektard denial... He even went as far as to bash the work of a man who is clearly much smarter than he will ever be... Sad indeed.

TtheWriter Says:

Nov 22, 2009 - A good movie! I enjoyed it! :D